Ambitious… But Overlooked? Why Being Loud Isn’t the Answer

You’re working hard.
You’re delivering.
You’re doing everything “right.”

But somehow… you’re still not moving forward the way you expected.

In this episode, we explore why - and what actually creates real growth without forcing you to become someone you’re not.

What if the problem isn’t your ambition…
but the way you’ve been taught to use it?

Many professionals today feel stuck in a frustrating space:

They’re doing the work.
They’re showing up.
They’re performing.

Yet they still feel overlooked, undervalued—or unsure how to take the next step.

And over time, a subtle pressure builds:

👉 Do I need to become louder… more visible… more political… just to grow?

In this episode, I sit down with Patrick Kamba—Executive Director in global project management, leadership mentor, and author of Quiet Ambition—to explore a different path.

A path where growth is not driven by noise or self-promotion…
but by clarity, intentional relationships, and grounded leadership.

🎧 In this conversation, you’ll discover:

• Why “ticking all the boxes” is often not enough
• The hidden role of alliances and understanding the system
• How stepping back helped Patrick move forward
• The difference between performing and progressing
• How to build visibility without losing your authenticity
• Why identity is the foundation of sustainable success
• How to grow without burning out—or losing yourself

🎯 This episode is especially for you if:

• You feel overlooked despite doing good work
• You’re ambitious—but don’t want to play political games
• You’re navigating a season of uncertainty or transition
• You want clarity—not just more pressure

💬 A key insight from this episode:

Growth doesn’t come from being louder.
It comes from being clearer.

If this resonates, take a moment to reflect:

👉 What does success actually mean to you right now?

🔗 Next Steps

If you want to go deeper into this kind of work:

👉 Book a free Clarity Conversation
https://lifeleadershipconnected.systeme.io/32644969

🎯 Join the Summit:
Clarity in Transition: From Identity to Sustainable Impact
https://lifeleadershipconnected.systeme.io/life-leadership-connected-summit-2026

🌍 Learn more:
https://lifeleadershipconnected.com

👤 David Dahlén D’Cruz  
Transition & Identity Coach  
Life & Leadership Connected  

📩 david.dahlendcruz@lifeleadershipconnected.com  

We Empower Your Journey

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:04

So I was a project manager at that moment and I wanted to be promoted. I was considering I was uh ticking all the boxes, and actually I was, but I was not aware at that moment that that they are all the moving pieces, that you need to build alliances and also understand the process of promotion. So I took the time because I saw some people be being, you know, a bit toxic, lobbying, starting to ask one-to-one with human resources, the land manager or the boss of their boss, and say, why am I not promoted? And I felt that it was not the right and appropriate behavior. That's why I decided to step back because I didn't want to become like this. But I was close to become like this. When I was introducing myself like 20 years ago, I was always saying that I was a performer. So it was very clear, you know, performing, delivering, pushing, dominating conversations, and uh, of course being seen and heard. That was my uh kind of uh big stamp because people knew that when I was in the room, they can be sure that things will happen. That was my um kind of self-promotion uh definition in the past. Then I learned, and I like to say the hard way, but that's sometimes what needs to happen. I understood with time that actually when you are a bit more soft, smooth, that you build alliances, that you ask questions to people who have the power in order to understand and not in order to just reply and challenge and lobby. A lot of positive things can happen. And at that time, I didn't know it was quite ambition, but I had kind of seeds about building alliances, talking to the right people, asking for advice, and then things happened and that allowed me to actually grow further in my career and be where I am today. I was working in the steel industry, doing tin plate, you know, the metal boxes that you use for the perfume from Jean-Paul Gautier. You know, the the green, I mean not the green, the gray one, the metallic. I evolved as an engineer for process in uh ink and paintings. Then I worked as a consultant, and actually I was a project manager in transportation industry, working on reliability of trains, and my business manager at that moment found an opportunity to do the same kind of job at GSK with vaccines, moving from project management in transportation to project management in vaccines. That is the trigger. And actually, it was really lucky because it was just my business manager who had an opportunity and said, you should be a very good fit for this kind of mission. So I was a project manager at that moment and I wanted to be promoted, was considering I was uh ticking all the boxes, and actually I was, but I was not aware at that moment that they are all the moving pieces, that you need to build alliances, and also understand the process of promotion. So I took the time because I saw some people be being, you know, a bit toxic, lobbying, starting to ask one-to-one with human resources, the land manager or the boss of their boss, and say, why am I not promoted? And I felt that it was not the right and appropriate behavior. That's why I decided to step back because I didn't want to become like this, but I was close to become like this, to be clear. And then I tried and I asked some people, and guess what? They took the time to explain me what was happening. Because I was not lobbying, I was just curious to understand. And I was in a way quiet. And that is where I started to understand that by asking things in a very polite way, trying to understand, bring value, people talk to you, and then I learned the process it and understood, and that is what has guided me even now on how to navigate, incorporate a professional world in general.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Like you're moving forward on the outside, but how even stuck on the inside. You're not alone. This is the Life and Deadship Connected Podcast, where we help you move from confusion to clarity, from pressure to purpose, and from simply performing to living aligned. I'm David Taliano Cruz. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to a new episode of the podcast Life and Dead Ship Connected Podcast. Today, today's guest is a man called Patrick Kamba. Patrick Kamba. And he's from Belgium, and he's an executive director in global project management. He's an international speaker, he's a mentor, and author of a book called Quiet Ambition. And Patrick has led high-stakes global programs across industries, including called FMCG and global pharmaceutical vaccine programs. He's been working with organizations like GSK and Johnson ⁇ Johnson. He's mentored over 60 professionals, many of them women, helping them grow in influence without compromising who they are. But what makes Patrick's message powerful is this. Once he believed ambition had to be allowed. He discovered that that approach didn't lead to the recognition he expected. So what he discovered then, instead, he discovered something that's deeply needed today. The most respected leaders, they are often quietly ambitious. Quite ambitious. And they're also strategic. They're grounded, they are clear, and they are service-driven. So if you are someone who listened today, watched this podcast, who wants to grow, but refuses to lose your integrity, then this conversation is for you. So uh welcome to the podcast, Patrick.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

Thanks for having me, David.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Great, yeah, good. So, Patrick, in order to let the listeners amused to get to know you a bit, and before we start to talk a bit about your book, Quite Ambition, can you take us back? Who were you early in your career? What kind of ambition drew you at the beginning?

SPEAKER_05 6:41

So when I was introducing myself like 20 years ago, I was always saying that I was a performer. So it was very clear, you know, performing, delivering, pushing, dominating conversations, and of course being seen and heard. That was my uh kind of uh big stem because people knew that when I was in the room, they can be sure that things will happen. That was my um kind of self-promotion uh definition in the past. Then I learned, and I like to say the hard way, but that's sometimes what needs to happen. I understood with time that actually when you are a bit more soft, smooth, that you build alliances, that you ask questions to people who have the power in order to understand and not in order to just reply and challenge and lobby. A lot of positive things can happen. And at that time, I didn't know it was quite ambition, but I had kind of seeds about building alliances, talking to the right people, asking for advice, and then things happened, and that allowed me to actually grow further in my career and be where I am today.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

That's great, great. And you started in engineering and moved into global pharma leadership. Uh and uh can you tell us a bit what shaped that path? How come did you get into that path in life?

SPEAKER_05 7:57

A bit of luck, let's be let's be uh honest, because I was working in steel industry doing tin plate, you know, the metal boxes that you use for the perfume from Jean-Paul Gautier. Mal, you know, the the the green, I mean not the green, the gray one, the metallic. Then I evolved as an engineer for process in uh ink and paintings. Then I worked as a consultant, and actually I was a project manager in transportation industry, working on reliability of trains, and my business manager at that moment found an opportunity to do the same kind of job at GSK with vaccines, moving from project management in transportation to project management in vaccine. That is the trigger. And actually, it was really lucky because it was just my business manager who had an opportunity and said, you should be a very good fit for this kind of mission. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Okay, great. And when did you first realize that you were ambitious? What were the early signs of that?

SPEAKER_05 8:55

Oh, early signs, claiming I needed to be promoted. That's how I was doing it. So I was uh project manager at that moment and I wanted to be promoted, was considering I was uh ticking all the boxes, and actually I was, but I was not aware at that moment that they are all the moving pieces, that you need to build alliances and also understand the process of promotion. So I took the time because I saw some people be being, you know, a bit toxic, lobbying, starting to ask one-to-one with human resources, their land manager or the boss of their boss, and say, Why am I not promoted? And I felt that it was not the right and appropriate behavior. That's why I decided to step back because I didn't want to become like this. But I was close to become like this, to be clear. And then I tried and I asked some people, and guess what? They took the time to explain me what was happening. Because I was not lobbying, I was just curious to understand. And I was in a way quiet. And that is where I started to understand that by asking things in a very polite way, trying to understand, bring value, people talk to, and then I learned the process it and understood. And that is what has guided me even now on how to navigate, incorporate, and professional world in general.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Many people that chase success today, uh as you maybe did also in the beginning. What did success mean to you in in those early years?

SPEAKER_05 10:24

So, early years it was I want to be a director in a pharma company, purely on the title and the ego. Yes, I I say it. I'm completely relaxed to say it. Let's say now, let's say several years ago, it's a bit different. I'm just looking for ways to contribute to the development of the others, because at the end that is really what I like to do. Being happy in my life, okay, and have the choice, the options to be free. At the end, that's what I want. And so I evolved because I took the time to think about myself. What does success look like for me? And that's why when I am mentoring and coaching people, I ask them the same. And it's completely fine to look for the title, the money, the power, the house, the car. I don't know. But it needs to be said loud so that at least it is clear. And what I like to do is what is behind? Do you want the big success, the big title because of your parents, your brother, sister, your kids, your wife, or your your husband, your partner in general? Where does it come from? So that you understand what is really the driver. And on the opposite, I like to say, when you get there, will it be enough or will you look for something else? Because people may say, I want to be director, and then I want to be vice president, then I want to be CEO, but then in a way you may never be successful. Or what when do you say stop? And that is what I try to explain and uncover when I am again attributed to the development of the others, is when would it be enough? Because that's a critical part actually. Otherwise you spend your life looking for success and you will never get there.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

You you you said uh earlier openly that you once believed that ambition had to be loud. And you mentioned here too, uh and and that you have to dominate rooms, be visible, and push yourself forward. What happened when that strategy didn't work the way you expected?

SPEAKER_05 12:15

No, it it it did not because it was not delivering so many results as I was expecting, and I saw other people also being loud, but then I saw some of them trying to be even louder, and that is where they started to escalate, try to chase uh human resource to understand why they were not promoted. And then I said, No, that is not what I want to do, because I knew other people talking in their back and said, You see, this person again, uh, there has been a lot of noise. I heard that they went to HR and said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't want people to say this behind my back tomorrow that you know Patrick went there, made a scandal, and all of this. That's why I stepped back and I tried to calm me down, okay, and put ego aside. And okay, let's build something, let's go and ask to maybe understand, because at the end of the day, HR had more information and and I might be missing some information that were critical. And that is what that was the case, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you go back a little bit, you said you you were disappointed when you didn't what wasn't promoted and and even complaining. Tell us a little bit what was going on internally, and I ask that because I think many people experience that. Yes. And they don't understand what kind of emotions is this and what I do with them. So tell us a bit how you experienced that.

SPEAKER_05 13:38

So I felt disappointed, frustrated, angry. I was feeling it was unfair because I was convinced I was taking all the boxes, and also I got the feedback around me that I was taking all the boxes. So to me it was really unfair. Why couldn't I get promoted? That was it. So in a way, I deserve it. Why don't you give it to me? That was my feelings at that at that moment.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

What did that reveal to you about identity? Because identity, I think, is something that's in here too. Did that change something for you around your identity?

SPEAKER_05 14:15

I would say during a certain amount of time, yes, because I was starting to be frustrated and vent with colleagues. Like I was not known to be venting, complaining, but then I started to complain and vent. And of course I was not the only one complaining and venting about my promotion because I knew other people who were complaining and venting about their own promotion. Yeah. You know, of course. We had our kind of personal roadmaps and we were making starting to make a lot of noise. And then again, we start I started to see some people going going too far. Then I said that's not me, that's not my style at the end. But I needed to see other people pushing lobbying, hearing how the things happened and how it went, to start to think about do I really want to go the same way.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

I wonder about your leadership. Did your leadership affect it? Well, how was that affected from the mindset that you had? Tell us a bit about that.

SPEAKER_05 15:11

So it evolved. So at that time it was more let me take care of this, you know, with a strong voice. I do it, I push, let's go, knocking at several doors, asking other functions to work together and let's push and let's be proud. We we get there. And then again, by starting to step back, engage new people, build alliances, it allowed me to touch and approach much more people, but in a smoother way and calmer way and more confident way. And then I developed and adapted my leadership style, allowing all of us to move together and forward, but in a smoother way, but still moving forward. Because it's not about slowing down or stopping. No, no, we were moving at the same pace, but more collaborative, more and more and more and more.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

I wonder where where did you lead? I mean, because you you're you're a leader today. What's your first sign of you being a leader? So tell us a little bit about the leadership of yourself and others, and maybe some milestones that we shaped you to lead your today.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

So the first time I the first time I heard it, I was really surprised because I was in the army at that time. I was uh, you know, um as a French uh citizen, it was mandatory. So it was around 99 and 2000. I was in France in a parachutist uh regiment. We had, as you can imagine, to jump out of the aircraft and land smoothly, let's say. And one uh big chief commander told me one day, ah yes, uh Kamba, because of course you don't you don't care about the first name, you only use the last name, by the way. Uh Kamba, you are a leader, you should use it for your future, for your career. I was not aware anyway, I didn't know what was a leader, by the way. Remember, I was in the army, I was just finishing my studies, so to me, a leader was just something that I did not know. That was the first time. And then it was uh really at GSK, let's say, that I started to drive lead project teams, propose to do uh, you know, project plans, risk management, put everybody in the room and align and agree on how to move forward. That was those those moments. And I started to see that really this is what I like to do because I was using a lot of my uh human people side of things, in the sense that I like to talk to people, to listen to them, contribute to their growth, and do this as uh partners. And that is actually my way of leading, it's about people. So even if you have processes, you have to manage XYZ, at the end, I always do it via people. So even if I do a technical risk management workshop, at the end it's me engaging people on what do you think are the risks, how do you think we can manage this? And not this is the process with the five steps. Okay, that's the difference.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Okay, great. And and if you go back to this um this period where you learned that you wanted to lead in another way. You w want to manage, I mean, you you were frustrated, we talked about before, and and I think shifted there. Tell us about what what changed, how that affected you.

SPEAKER_05 18:24

So it it affected me in the in the sense that I understood that I needed to build alliances, talk to more people who will support me, I like to say, when I am not there. That's the point of the lasting presence is when people talk about you when you are not in the room. So if you take the time to talk to new people, but also importantly, help them grow, contribute to their development. So it's being less selfish, it's about just kind of servant leadership at that moment already. Like I volunteer to help you, not as a strategy, but just because I want to help you, because I know you and we have good interactions. Let me help you because six months ago you helped me. So that's my turn, and it's for a given that I will help you again and again and again. And you start to be giving without, you know, counting and checking if you can get a benefit in the future. Just helping because you want to help. And that makes that's a big change because then people start to think about you for any project. They want to have you in their teams moving forward, they start to consult you, and then when somebody asks them feedback, then they will give positive feedback. Ah, okay, I like to be in the team with Patrick because we can get XYZ. He's always there to help, he wants this, and then you start to build your reputation.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah, yeah, and it's really good. It's really good. And you mentioned in an early podcast, you mentioned that before seeking promotion, you used the word step zero is to explore yourself. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_05 19:58

So, as we we talked about, uh defining success is what is your ambition? What do you want? And it's beyond the title because at the end, when I was project manager and I wanted to grow and move to a director position, it was clear to me that I was I would have preferred to be a senior manager with a team than a director with no team. So at the end, it was not the title. What I wanted is having reporting line or direct reports in my team. And that is the real thing that I wanted. But I discovered because I took the time to explore. And then what happened is that yes, one day I will be a director instead of I want to be a director. And by thinking like this, I put my energy on having a team, pushing and asking for this kind of responsibilities. And then eventually at certain moment, I had the opportunity to be a director. But at the end, it was not my target anymore. It was just a kind of side effect to be a director. And that and that's the thing. That's why it's important to think about your success, your ambition, what is it? That is the step zero. Because otherwise, you will just rush, jump, do thousands of trainings, talk to thousands of people just to be sure that one day you are director. Yeah. And then what?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, shift the focus.

SPEAKER_05 21:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Yeah. I wonder, I mean, what gives your life energy, Patrick, in the work you do now? And how do you keep your energy at high level day by day?

SPEAKER_05 21:27

So as we are discussing, I like people. That's really people. It's about people. So what gives me energy is of course when I see people being promoted. It is as simple as that. But it's also when, again, I give advice or I help people have different perspectives. We are discussing, and I see that at the end they are happy about our conversation. We may disagree on some elements, and that's completely fine. But I see that those people were happy to have had different perspectives. It triggers some thoughts. And basically, when people say, Thank you, Patrick, that is an interesting insight, then I'm happy. And that is how I uh I can keep on being fueled by those uh those interactions. Another part, of course, is just solving problems, because I like to solve problems, but in a way I like problems. So it's sitting with teams, discussing options, alternatives, and if altogether we say, okay, these are our next steps, we have a plan, then I'm happy to. So that is really what fuels me every day.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Yeah. Okay, great. Now let's get a bit practical. For someone listening right now and who wants to grow but doesn't want to become loud, political or fake, or something in the similar, where do they start? Where do they begin if they want to make this change?

SPEAKER_05 22:47

So, first, what do they want? What success means for them. That's the first question. Success and ambition. What do they want? And then it's about identifying some specific moments or even meetings with specific people, and maybe influence them, get to know them much more. So it's a step by step. Be confident that even if there are a lot of things to be done, if they take the time, it will happen. And they have to allow them themselves to just try and learn and try and learn. That's one thing. Another one is of course build alliances. They should look for mentors, coaches, people who will support them. And I sometimes receive the question about how do we find those people who will support us. So it's very simple. It's people who are happy for anything successful you have. People who are just smiling. Because if you explain that, okay, I am planning to run a marathon in three months, I am planning to buy a new house, I'm planning to go one month on vacation, etc., when people are smiling, are happy as questions, you can count on those people to help you. Because the opposite is yes, I am having a tough moment at work, I would like to be promoted, it's complicated. And people, if they change topic or say, yeah, but come on, you're already well paid, why are you complaining? Those people, you know already that you should not talk so much to them about those issues because they are not supporting you. And that is the quiet ambition in the sense that you have to be selective on who you share your goal with.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

That's right. That's a good strategy. Perfect, thank you. And now let's go to your your book, uh Quiet Ambition. And when you do you do your key keynote speaks, some areas that you focus on are authentic ambition, strategic visibility, calm influence, and sustainable success. So I believe that those might be key pillars for you. Can you tell us a bit about that? And the core principles behind Quiet Ambitious?

SPEAKER_05 24:54

Yes, so I like to say this is the book I wish um I had in my in my hands uh a long time ago. So at a certain moment I have decided to write this book. And at the end, what is always uh funny is that a lot of us are doing a lot of those chapters, but maybe not in the right order. That's why I'm talking to you about the step zero. People are ambitious, they want the title, yes, okay, but that is maybe chapter three. You know, you set your smart goals, then you have uh coaches, mentors, and you have your network. Yes, okay. But what about step zero? What are you looking for? And that's why I'm saying at first, you need to explore yourself. What is ambition for you, what is success. And then it's about being strategic on when you have to show up. There might be a few meetings during the week or next week where you will have to be there. And you may not need to try to dominate the room. You may just introduce the meeting or summarize or rephrase or highlight some risks. That is how you will be strategically visible because people will remember that, ah, okay, David was in the room. He asked two or three interesting questions. He rephrased, he proposed this. And then if you start to do it, you will be well known, you will get this reputation. And then people will start to invite you, talk about you when you are not in the room, and say maybe we should invite David next time. That's the thing. And this is where you go with the call influence. Instead of, I should have been invited, I am the one in charge, why didn't you call me? Then you will start to be loud, and people start to say, Yeah, but why is he reacting like this? That's why maybe we should not invite him because he will only speak and will not be able to say something. Then you see the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah, that's good. That's good. And can you explain a bit more how can someone build visibility without self-promotion? You mentioned a little bit, but can you do some more strategies?

SPEAKER_05 26:50

Yes, so very important and basic, you have to be prepared. You cannot, you don't improvise. Meaning that you know that your boss of the boss will be in a meeting next Monday, you have to prepare this meeting. You have to know who will be in the room, you have to know who is influencing the important person you want to talk to. Ideally, you should talk to a few people attending this meeting before the meeting, so that when you join the meeting, you can say, Yes, when we prepare this meeting with XYZ, we found out that, etc. So that people say, Ah, okay, he has prepared. And then, of course, prepare maybe some questions or think about your way to rephrase or your way to propose, or maybe just do an introduction of the meeting, or just take notes and say, okay, I have summarized the actions of the meetings, I will send it to you within the hour. Those little things, and if you repeat it, people will say again, we would like to get David because I like the way he prepared, he knew what was important, he proposed to XYZ. That's the story. These are ways to be in a way self-promoted without self-promoted.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Yeah, that's good, that's good. To do more than expected of you.

SPEAKER_05 28:06

Yes, yes. Go over expectations and beyond expectations, but in a way, don't claim that you went beyond expectations.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:16

Ensuring that people feel that you went beyond and you never say it. Because doing what you say it, it's about ego, self-promotion. Yeah. And at the end, if really you did, people will see it, but be more smooth.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. That's good. And I wonder how do you lead calmly in high-stakes environments like vaccine programs and global pharma to be more specific?

SPEAKER_05 28:39

Yeah. So that there is a myth about leadership, meaning that in those highly regulated and uh constrained environments, like the leaders know everything. That's not true at all. First, we don't know. We are just putting the right people around the table. So it's uh, let's say it's a skill, need the right people to be invited. It's also asking for input uh guidance, even if you made a decision at the end. But you need also to be able to say, I don't know, I may be blind-sided on some areas and ask for opinion because most of the time a lot of people in the room have ideas. So it's about creating this safe and collaborative environment so that people can just speak.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Okay, that's good. Great. Okay, we're going to take a short break here for maybe maybe maybe 20, 30 seconds. I will come back very soon. Before we continue, if you are listening to this right now, there's probably a reason. Maybe something in this conversation is resonating with you. Maybe you are in a season where you're trying to figure things out your direction, your next step, or even who you really are beneath everything you're doing. And if that's you, I just want to say you're not alone in that. This is exactly why I do this podcast to create space for deeper clarity, not just more noise. And if you feel like you want to go deeper than just listening, this is also the kind of work I do in my coaching, helping you step out of confusion and into clarity, alignment, and purposeful action. So if that's something you've been thinking about, you're always welcome to reach out and start a conversation with me. And also, if this topic speaks to you, I'm hosting an upcoming event called Clarity in Transition from identity to sustainable impact. It's designed exactly for seasons like this when you are in between where you've been and where you're called to go next. But for now, let's go back to uh the conversation because I think what's coming next might be exactly what you need to hear. Hello and welcome back to the Life and Leadership Connector Podcast. Today I have a conversation with Patrick Kamba. Patrick, you you you spoke about before before how you create alliances as a strategy to grow and move forward. And uh I wonder you can you maybe speak about by surrounding yourself with this kind of right people? You you you had a method, you you said you ask them, you tell them about something positive and see how they react. Can you maybe talk a little bit more about how you create that kind of right inner circle?

SPEAKER_05 31:27

Yes. So um when you are ambitious, I would say the day after adversity comes. That's my philosophy. Uh-huh. You know, like uh knock knock who's there, adversity. Okay? And then you should not automatically manage this alone. Why would you? Because at the end of the day, so many people are successful, they did not do it alone. They've been supported, they have been surrounded, they have been coached, mentored, taught, whatever. So it's you finding for your true allies. It's you saying, I've been promoted, I'm so happy, and then see how people react in front of you. Yes, of course, it should be more money for you. Okay, you know already. Compared to that's great, let's celebrate, I'm so happy for you, you work so much, you deserve, you see, that's the difference. Because believe me, I have both in my life. And that's why I always propose to people to make those kinds of checks. And if ideally, let me rephrase it, ideally, before sharing about your promotion to know if people are your allies or not, just explain the day-to-day things. I went to a restaurant with my partner, I went to a restaurant with my kids, I went on vacation, I have bought a new laptop, etc. And you see how people react. If they are happy, they ask you further questions. Uh, what brand? I why this color, what are the performances? That's great, what are you planning to do with your new laptop? Tell me about it. This curiosity compared to how much did it cost? Again, but I thought that you had one already last year. Yes, of course, you are lucky. All of those things, you know how to filter. And then if you go really in the professional environment, if you say that, oh, that's great, I talked to this person, he's so inspiring. I hope I will learn. Yeah, of course, you have always been very ambitious. Okay, then you know, compared to, yes, I know this person, this person can help. That's super, I'm happy for you. You see, it was not so complicated. You should talk to maybe another person, I know, and I will make an introduction for you. That's different because we sometimes underestimate the number of people who can help you, but then that can also sabotage you. Because then it's jealousy. Because when you are ambitious, and that is the price of ambition, or the cost even, you are putting a mirror in front of some people, and they may see that actually you are moving forward while I am not moving forward. I am stuck in my life and I see that you are moving forward. I don't want to see you evolve, or I will start to say, since you change your job, you are changing in terms of behavior. You are not the same. And actually, maybe you are not the same, but it's because you're moving forward. And maybe you are stuck in your, yeah, I cannot change my job now because it's too complicated. Okay. And then you will just be a wannabe, staying where you are while you are moving, you are trying. Or the opposite. People who are saying, is it a good thing for you to change your laptop? Is it really a good idea to do this marathon? Because uh, you know it's hard to do it. Yeah, but I'm just saying I want to do it and I will be surrounded by people. But again, you want to go there, but aren't you enough to travel so much? Okay? And that is the difference. And that is all of those gems I like to give to people when they are thinking about how to find my allies and how to be surrounded by them.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah, I yeah, thank you. Thank you for saying that. That's good strategies. And um you you stress you stress that knowing your identity before striving forward, that's that's very important. And and I wonder why is identity so foundational to ambition? And what happens if we skip that step?

SPEAKER_05 35:16

If you skip that step, you may reach your target, but you don't know it. So, in other words, it's about knowing when enough is enough. If your target is to have a team to start your business, why? Because you want freedom. Okay, so when you start your business and you are free, that's it. You reach your target. But if you want to start your business, you want to have a lot of money, but how much? You want more, yeah, but why? Yeah, because I want to have a lot of money. Yeah, but then you will keep on working to have more and more money. And when people will ask you, how is your business going? Not so well, because I want to yeah, but you won't, but then when will it stop? That's why by looking for this identity, this real ambition and success meaning for you, you know when you are there. And that is maybe the most difficult part because we are in a world of performance, success. In a way, you should never have enough, you should always push forward. But what for? So I can tell you that about my career. Technically, I am beyond my objective because I'm beyond being a director. And that doesn't mean that I'm less motivated because now I am a director. No, I just see the things differently.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:30

My objective has been achieved a long time ago. Now I'm much more in the quiet and calm ambition. And actually, that allowed me to go much beyond my initial objective. That's the beauty of it. So I like to say it's not because I reached my objective that I'm not motivated anymore. No, it's even the opposite. I'm much more motivated, but much more confident because it's achieved. I can do it for my pleasure, and don't and so I can contribute much more. Yeah because I have nothing to prove anymore. Yeah. And that is also, of course, a very sensitive part. What do you want to prove?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Yeah, yeah. I think many people that they they ran in this, you know, that might be called the hamster wheel, you know, go round, round, round, round. Yes. And they don't know how to get out of it. And uh yeah, that's that's good. Thank you for sharing. And you said Sawa that you need to be daring to lead, but also daring to fail. And how how do those two connect?

SPEAKER_05 37:25

So I like to say that even Warren Buffett lost some money on the stock market. So I can fail too. But more seriously, considering our career will be so long, we'll have to work until I don't know how much or how old, but very far. Even if you fail today, don't worry, you still have tomorrow to come back and do something. So it's actually embracing failure, learn from it, and move forward. Because I like to give the example of the babies. When they are when they were born, they cannot speak, they cannot walk. In roughly two years and a half, they walk and almost run, and they can start to have a lot of words. And they fail every day because yeah, they're producing sounds that we don't understand. And day after day, they they persevere, and at the end we just understand them. And so what? They are failing every day until the day they start to do a first word. And guess what? When they say papa, mama, and etc., it's even uh firework, you know, the stories. Yeah, yeah. It's a small thing, but we are making so much noise because yeah, they said papa, they said mama, and all of this. While they failed, and we didn't understand. So failure is fine as long as we learn, and that's what babies do actually. Yeah, they learn the same when they want to walk. They are sitting, suddenly they are standing, maybe one step, maybe not, and they fail. And one hour later, they try again. They don't say, I fall down, I stop, I will not try to walk anymore. So we can learn from them.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yes, failure is part of life.

SPEAKER_05 39:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

That's important, yeah. And um I wonder, let's imagine that someone listening who feels ambitious but conflicted. They want growth, but they don't want to lose those relationships that that we talked about. And they don't don't want to burn out. They don't want to become someone that don't respect. What would you tell them?

SPEAKER_05 39:23

So I I would say think about their their their ambition and what is really behind. Is it really ego? What is behind the ego? The the the you know the recognition, what do they want to achieve? And to how to what extent are they sure that if they succeed, they will in a way stop? Because if it is to succeed and say, now I have to do everything I can to maintain and stay at that level, then it's a bigger problem. But there must be solutions, of course. Again, they need to explore themselves and also be surrounded with the people who will, in a way, supervise or monitor the behavior to be sure that this person is in uh good shape. Because the trap is I want to go and do this one more project, and I'm sure I will be recognized, I will get congratulations. And if I need to work during all the weekend, during this year, I will do it. But then there's that there will be an alert. And that's why being surrounded by people they trust, they will be in a way protected because those people will say, Are you sure it is the right way to do it? They will start to challenge. And I like to say, when three people who don't know each other are giving you the same message, maybe you should listen.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

I think this um concerns the importance of having mentors in your life, even as a leader, to have people that you can uh connect with and maybe be accountable to. What would you respond to that?

SPEAKER_05 40:46

So you need, let's say, mentors, coach, sponsors in your career, you being 20 years old or 60 years old. The relationship will evolve, but even I would say CEOs of 20,000 people, they still have mentors, they still have advisors, peers. So it's about humility to have advisors, people who will give you advice, and of course that you will listen to, but not automatically doing what they say. That's the difference. They are just advisors. So at least you have to listen and then you are taking decisions because you have to live with the decision. You are the only one living with the decisions.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good, thank you. Now I wonder what gives you purpose in life, Patrick? Uh purpose and meaning. What is your because we we spoke about uh the why all the time, what is your why behind the work you do today?

SPEAKER_05 41:38

So my my why is really contributing to uh people growth and development. That's really my that's my thing. And that's why every time I have the opportunity to lead a team, I just uh raise my hand. That's really it's and in my ideal world, it's contributing to ensure and ensure that the women are paid and appreciated at the level of their performance and not below.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Okay, thank you. And and many people today they work a lot and they forget the personal life. And I wonder how do you set healthy boundaries in your life so you you don't risk to maybe burn out. That can affect many people. And to add something, how do you about staying healthy both physically, mentally, emotionally, and maybe also spiritually?

SPEAKER_05 42:24

So it's a very uh very broad question. Do I really put uh boundaries? I'm not sure. I may surprise you, but I'm more in integration, in the sense that having three daughters, you know, 16, 10, and 8, I talk to them a lot. I share. I share that okay, I have to go now, I have a meeting. I sometimes take some five minutes call in my car to finish the call when I have to pick them up. Or I'm going back home and I'm just arriving at the moment when the meet the meeting is starting. So they are they are seeing it, so they are used to it, but they don't feel a pressure, tension, or not too much, at least. It's very low. I sometimes say, okay, we have to hurry up because I have to start a meeting in five minutes. That's the reality. But it's there. And on the opposite, they have not seen all of those activities preventing them from going on vacation with me somewhere. So I keep vacations with them, especially places they like. That's really important. So that's one way to keep boundaries. And indeed, there are some cases where urgently I need to leave them and go to attend to a meeting or take a phone call. Yes. But I try also to not work beyond a certain moment. Then I say, okay, I have to stop and I just switch off my phone.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:45

But in the morning I take a bit more time to prepare them food. Okay. During the weekend we cook together. So it's organizing also cooking lessons because I like to cook, so my kids like to cook with me and we have fun. And from time to time in during the week we cook together. Another basic way is is that I do planning for the meals with them. And so I put everything and from time to time I leave it empty so that they don't know. And so it triggers discussions. So at the end, they feel I'm working, they know it. But they also say, Yeah, Papa is not really working because he likes all of this, so he seems to have a bit of fun. So they start to be to disconnect the big pressure of her work and this integration between working, having freedom, and that is what I want to share with them, is it should not be a burden. That's why, of course, I'm doing extra things like doing podcasts with you today, is finding ways to keep this motivation, this pleasure on working in the day to day. That's more or less this. And then to come back to the healthy with the spiritual, so I'm doing uh more and more meditation brief with work, but I am exploring because I don't know all of those techniques. I'm still relatively new. So what do I do again? As I am surrounded by people, I ask them and then they share with me, okay, you should try this app, you should try this uh herbal tea, you should try this kind of I don't know, cereals. And then again, you have friends and people around you. Okay, maybe you should go and get some sun in winter. Ah, okay, then maybe I should go to Tenerife, Spain in December. And at the end, it's I'm not alone, I have a support system. Okay, it's maybe saving money every month to be able to go, I don't know, once from time to time to a restaurant that I like. It's putting all of these small, nice things for me as a father, for me as a professional, so that I can manage all of this. So these are just some examples.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Yeah, yeah, good, thank you. If you had to summarize quite ambition uh in one sentence for the next generation of leaders, what would you say?

SPEAKER_05 46:00

So it's quite ambition is how to be uh respected, impactful without the noise.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

And that's a good one. That's a good one, thank you. Where where can people um go if they want to learn more of you, uh Patrick, and maybe buy a book and so on?

SPEAKER_05 46:14

Yes. So they they can uh reach out to me via LinkedIn. So very simple.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:19

Patrick Kamba. Then I have uh my own website, street times wpatrickcamba.com, where they will see the different topics I have talked about during uh conferences, and also a connection to buy my book that is also available on Amazon.com.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Yeah, good. Thank you. Thank you for this conversation, Patrick. It has been nice to to to learn from you how not to be loud but still be able to to to grow in life and and uh excel.

SPEAKER_05 46:45

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

It's just my identity, it's really powerful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

You're welcome, David. It was really a pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

So you viewers and listeners, thank you for being here today. And I encourage you to subscribe to the channel so you don't miss when the next one comes out. Uh until then, uh see you then. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_05 47:03

Thank you.